The corollary to this is: Had Trump won re-election, he would have told everyone to get the "Trump vaccine" because he would not have wanted Covid to tarnish his second term. And his supporters would have gotten the vaccine.
Patterico, everyone is now trying to use this pandemic for political advantage. It was that way in the days of the 1918 influenza pandemic. I'm not resorting to whataboutism, but there is so much blame and nonsense going on with this pandemic. It reminds me of the politics in the early days of the AIDS epidemic. I just want to minimize death and suffering. But I see so many pundits and commenters everywhere just using information selectively, to support their causes. Ugh. Such an ugly time in history. Best wishes to you and your family; please stay well and safe.
There are clearly political opportunists using the debate about Covid, vaccines, masks, etc. But it seems to me that these issues resonate with most people for social or cultural reasons.
Where I live in West Texas, we see ourselves as rugged individualists ready and willing to face tough times. Standing up to danger may seem reckless to some but it is an important value to us.
We isolated and masked at first but now we are anxious to get back to our "real" lives. Some vaccinate, some have not. Those are individual choices that most of us accept whatever that choice was.
Like Simon, I worry about the effect of the choices people make. Some people can’t get the vaccine because of autoimmune issues, right? Aren’t they put at risk by people who could be vaccinated but simply choose not to?
Generally, vaccines are contraindicated because someone is likely to adversely respond to vaccination -- usually due to an allergy to a component, a prior adverse reaction to vaccination, or medical conditions that impact the immune system. (Vaccinations aka immunizations are designed to alter the immune system so people with immune system problems may react in unusual ways. Unfortunately there are many immune system diseases or conditions like pregnancy that can impact the immune system. )
It depends on the medical condition they have but in general I think it is true that herd immunity protects medically fragile people.
Ultimately, however, those of us with medical conditions that put us at risk are only protected by medical treatments like IVIG and other prophylactic medications, and by masking and isolating. Herd immunity helps those who still have some resistance but transplant/stem cell patients, end of life patients, and profoundly immunocompromised patients will always need more.
But I absolutely support the efforts to achieve herd immunity. It protects the medically fragile, the healthy, and is important for society as a whole. Vaccines are among civilization's greatest achievements.
I respect the heck out of you, DRJ. And I am more libertarian than anything else. But the public health aspects of this crisis are relevant (and it causes me pain to watch people on the left leap on this topic so avidly). I agree that individuals can and should make choices about their own health---but given epidemiology, some such choices will pass along a disease to others. This conflict is troublesome to me. The issues with vaccination and public health are not easy. All I know is that the more people are vaccinated, the quicker we are out of this mess. Some folks look at the chances of illness and death and deem them small (and in a larger calculus, they might be). But making that choice for others unsettles me. I wish you and your family the very best. With great respect, SJ.
Herd immunity is important. I hope people will get vaccinated and I encourage government at all levels to make it easy to get vaccinated, as well as to educate and provide incentives for people to get vaccinated.
But I don't want government to mandate these vaccines. This is not like requiring children be vaccinated in order to go to public schools, or requiring seat belts to drive on public roads. This would be requiring vaccines just because we exist.
Further, I fear it would change how we make personal health decisions. It would no longer be my choice to vaccinate. It would be government telling me to vaccinate unless a doctor excuses me. That is the opposite of how I want to make my health care decisions, and I say that as someone whose family is at great risk if herd immunity fails.
Yeah, I think government mandating it on the citizenry is one thing. But businesses mandating it for customers or employers mandating it for employees is something different. I support the latter and want government to stay out of the way when private business imposes its own constraints.
I agree. Businesses, especially public transport, can and should evaluate what is needed to protect their employees and customers. I also support restrictions and proof of vaccination for international travel, which will require government action. I don't think individual states should be able to do that but Hawaii does so who knows.
Our job is to educate and inform, not resort to authoritarian solutions like mandates. There will always be people who have to learn the hard way, whether we have mandates or not. But we are a free country and I don't want government making my health care decisions based on what is best for other people.
Vaccination rates have increased dramatically in many places now that we see reports of how nonvaccinated people are being hospitalized and/or dying of the Delta variant Covid. People can make decisions for themselves, and society works better when it is based on individual decisions instead of government coercion.
We know Trump will risk lives to benefit himself. He did it when he withdrew medical insurance coverage for his nephew's sick son during a Will dispute.
I agree. Trump knows he has loyal supporters yet instead of caring about them, he is fine with letting them die as long as it helps him. That is depraved.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-keeps-rejecting-pleas-from-allies-for-pro-vax-campaign?ref=wrap
The corollary to this is: Had Trump won re-election, he would have told everyone to get the "Trump vaccine" because he would not have wanted Covid to tarnish his second term. And his supporters would have gotten the vaccine.
Patterico, everyone is now trying to use this pandemic for political advantage. It was that way in the days of the 1918 influenza pandemic. I'm not resorting to whataboutism, but there is so much blame and nonsense going on with this pandemic. It reminds me of the politics in the early days of the AIDS epidemic. I just want to minimize death and suffering. But I see so many pundits and commenters everywhere just using information selectively, to support their causes. Ugh. Such an ugly time in history. Best wishes to you and your family; please stay well and safe.
There are clearly political opportunists using the debate about Covid, vaccines, masks, etc. But it seems to me that these issues resonate with most people for social or cultural reasons.
Where I live in West Texas, we see ourselves as rugged individualists ready and willing to face tough times. Standing up to danger may seem reckless to some but it is an important value to us.
We isolated and masked at first but now we are anxious to get back to our "real" lives. Some vaccinate, some have not. Those are individual choices that most of us accept whatever that choice was.
Like Simon, I worry about the effect of the choices people make. Some people can’t get the vaccine because of autoimmune issues, right? Aren’t they put at risk by people who could be vaccinated but simply choose not to?
There are many reasons why people should not be vaccinated. The CDC summarizes them here:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/should-not-vacc.html
Generally, vaccines are contraindicated because someone is likely to adversely respond to vaccination -- usually due to an allergy to a component, a prior adverse reaction to vaccination, or medical conditions that impact the immune system. (Vaccinations aka immunizations are designed to alter the immune system so people with immune system problems may react in unusual ways. Unfortunately there are many immune system diseases or conditions like pregnancy that can impact the immune system. )
It depends on the medical condition they have but in general I think it is true that herd immunity protects medically fragile people.
Ultimately, however, those of us with medical conditions that put us at risk are only protected by medical treatments like IVIG and other prophylactic medications, and by masking and isolating. Herd immunity helps those who still have some resistance but transplant/stem cell patients, end of life patients, and profoundly immunocompromised patients will always need more.
But I absolutely support the efforts to achieve herd immunity. It protects the medically fragile, the healthy, and is important for society as a whole. Vaccines are among civilization's greatest achievements.
I respect the heck out of you, DRJ. And I am more libertarian than anything else. But the public health aspects of this crisis are relevant (and it causes me pain to watch people on the left leap on this topic so avidly). I agree that individuals can and should make choices about their own health---but given epidemiology, some such choices will pass along a disease to others. This conflict is troublesome to me. The issues with vaccination and public health are not easy. All I know is that the more people are vaccinated, the quicker we are out of this mess. Some folks look at the chances of illness and death and deem them small (and in a larger calculus, they might be). But making that choice for others unsettles me. I wish you and your family the very best. With great respect, SJ.
Herd immunity is important. I hope people will get vaccinated and I encourage government at all levels to make it easy to get vaccinated, as well as to educate and provide incentives for people to get vaccinated.
But I don't want government to mandate these vaccines. This is not like requiring children be vaccinated in order to go to public schools, or requiring seat belts to drive on public roads. This would be requiring vaccines just because we exist.
Further, I fear it would change how we make personal health decisions. It would no longer be my choice to vaccinate. It would be government telling me to vaccinate unless a doctor excuses me. That is the opposite of how I want to make my health care decisions, and I say that as someone whose family is at great risk if herd immunity fails.
Yeah, I think government mandating it on the citizenry is one thing. But businesses mandating it for customers or employers mandating it for employees is something different. I support the latter and want government to stay out of the way when private business imposes its own constraints.
I agree. Businesses, especially public transport, can and should evaluate what is needed to protect their employees and customers. I also support restrictions and proof of vaccination for international travel, which will require government action. I don't think individual states should be able to do that but Hawaii does so who knows.
Our job is to educate and inform, not resort to authoritarian solutions like mandates. There will always be people who have to learn the hard way, whether we have mandates or not. But we are a free country and I don't want government making my health care decisions based on what is best for other people.
Vaccination rates have increased dramatically in many places now that we see reports of how nonvaccinated people are being hospitalized and/or dying of the Delta variant Covid. People can make decisions for themselves, and society works better when it is based on individual decisions instead of government coercion.
We know Trump will risk lives to benefit himself. He did it when he withdrew medical insurance coverage for his nephew's sick son during a Will dispute.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3382756/Donald-Trump-cut-medical-treatment-nephew-s-sick-baby.html
I agree. Trump knows he has loyal supporters yet instead of caring about them, he is fine with letting them die as long as it helps him. That is depraved.
Very well said. Good points made in this column throughout.